Manage episode 335038562 series 1446015
BOSSES, it’s time for you to use online casting sites + P2Ps to your advantage. Anne chats with Natasha Marchewka and Katherine Tole, co-founders of V123 Pros, a learning resource that elevates talents’ branding and V123 game. They discuss the importance of online casting sites, how you can brand yourself to be searchable & professional + tips on how to get & keep client connections through these websites.
>> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.
Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza. And today I am excited to welcome two very special guests to the show, super VO talents and business entrepreneurs Natasha Marchewka and Katherine Tole. They have paired up to build learning resources that will elevate your brand and your online casting game together. They are self-proclaimed and verified, I would say, V123 super nerds and the creators of the very successful V123 Pros. Ladies, thank you so, so much for joining me today.
Katherine: Thanks for having us, Anne.
Natasha: Thanks so, so much for the invite.
Anne: I love it. I love it, love it, love it. So I have lots of questions to ask you. But before we get to the online casting pros and cons, which are gonna be amazing, let's start off by telling the BOSSes a little bit about yourselves and your VO journey. So whoever wants to start, Katherine.
Katherine: Yeah, sure. So I worked in tech for a number of years. I got a chemical engineering degree, decided I didn't wanna do engineering and have always been very, very left and right brain, like started doing musical theater a lot when I was younger and being in choir. And I really missed that side of myself. And so I started taking classes nights and weekends at VoiceTrax when I was working in tech, just as a hobby, just for something fun to kind of get out my creative side. And then after a few years I realized I'm getting really great feedback, and I'm doing well. And what if I tried to make this a career question mark? Like, how would that be to be a full-time creative?
And so I took my little like nest egg that I had gotten from an acquisition from a tech company. And I left, or at least took a break from the tech world and started doing this full time. And about a year after I did that, I met Natasha, and I wasn't doing particularly well on Voice123. I was on it. It was the first place that I ever went to. I took a class at VoiceTrax all about Voice123, and then three months later they changed everything. And so I was just very disgruntled about it.
And so Natasha offered to teach this webinar to the workout group, the Larry Hudson workout group that I was a part of with her. And I learned so much. I was mind blown. And I realized there were so many things that I was doing wrong that they just don't teach you. There's just some little thing, you know, it's game, you gotta play it. There's some little tricks. And I said, hey, Natasha, I wanna help you help other people with all this knowledge that you have. And what if I take my tech background and help you do all these wonderful things? So.
Anne: I love it. The entrepreneurial spirit.
Natasha: Well, I'm so glad she did that because I really just wanted to help people with the positive side of online casting. It's such a huge opportunity. There's so many jobs available, and I was just kind of tired of hearing my peers say they weren't doing well, because I was. So I wanted to help give them a leg up. And when I did the webinar, free webinar for my workout group, it was just about sharing information. And, um, I'm so thrilled to hear again, Katherine, that you see so much from that. And Katherine is -- we are such a great marriage of different skill sets.
So we came together, we were helping people one hour at a time, and then realized we can't do this anymore. Let's do something a little more scalable. So we created a course, but I had been on Voice123 for almost my whole career. So I started in voiceover in 2006 at home, pretty much full-time. I mean, I just, I have, I'm a performer. I have degree in broadcasting. And so I had all those special skills that voice actors need or voiceover talent need to build a successful business, which is business acumen and some performance talent, and some experience in all the things business and tech and craft-wise.
So Voice123 was something I started in 2007 and on and off and on and off, because depending on what I was doing or what kind of auditions were coming in, I, I didn't pay too much attention, but I knew I needed to be online. I didn't live in LA. I didn't live in New York. I needed to be online if I was gonna have a viable business. And so 16 years later or so, Voice123 really works as a piece of my marketing puzzle. And I feel really strongly about how beneficial it is for talent to use that as part of their growth and income to make it work for them, because we have to do everything we can to have income flowing from different places. You can't rely on just one source of income as a talent or a freelancer. So, yeah, that's kind of my story.
Anne: Yeah. Well, first of all, I'd like to make a comment because you started on Voice123 just about the same time I did. And it certainly has evolved along the way. And my next question was talking about, okay, online casting sites, there's so much discussion online and on podcasts, and are they evil? Are they you know, the necessary evil, are they not? Do you need to belong to one in order to get work? And I think it would be a good time to maybe discuss this, your pros and cons for online casting sites.
And I know you guys specialize in V123, but I think both of your experiences, right, have led to finessing what it takes to be successful on that platform. But I think that you need to have the information and knowledge of other casting sites as well. So I think an overall -- let's talk about casting sites. Do we need them? Do we not need them? Are they necessary evil? What are your thoughts on that?
Katherine: I think they're fantastic because they're doing a lot of legwork that as a talent, you couldn't possibly keep up with. You know, their SEO hopefully is really strong. Their business is to collect more hirers for us. So I don't subscribe to the negative camp that they just wanna take money from talent. Well, they're a business. So they wanna figure out how they can make money. And if they're figuring out with integrity how to best make money, it's likely that I will benefit. So I have worked on several platforms to some success and not.
One of my favorite things about Voice123 is that you are encouraged to have a relationship with a client. How else would you grow your business if you couldn't have a continuing relationship with the clients? Some of them now I'm noticing are staying on the platform. They love the options that they can have by putting out auditions. But I have so many ongoing clients that I found on online casting that I wouldn't have otherwise. So I think it's necessary. And I say, poo poo to everyone who says, it's no good, because I'm a business woman, I'm a freelancer. And I wanna make money, and I'm gonna do it with the people with the most integrity possible. And they are available.
Anne: Well, I'll tell you, you mentioned SEO, and who has better SEO probably than online casting sites? Because everybody's profile has those words that are searchable, and I'm sure, Katherine, you can speak to the power of SEO and how it can help you to be found as a talent, and absolutely how once you're found on that platform, the cool thing is, is that yeah, if the client likes you, they just come back to you, whether they come back to you on the platform or not. I had a lot of clients that came to me after they found me on that platform. And that was one way I got a whole slew of clients that returned to me, which was amazing. Katherine, talk about your thoughts on that. .
Katherine: So to your first point, there's a lot of voice actors. You can search their name and their Voices.com or their Voice123 profile is gonna come up first for their website in some cases. So if you join one of these sites, you do need to make sure that your profile is fully filled out and looks professional. 'Cause what if that's the first thing that someone finds of you? And it was just a thing you kind of casually threw up with a couple sentences and you don't look bookable? So I would say no matter what sites you're on, go through and make sure you keep those updated and refresh demos, things like that because they might have better SEO than your website in some cases. That's the same for LinkedIn. It's a lot of times easier to find people's LinkedIn's profiles than their own websites because of that SEO.
One of my favorite things about Voice123 and a lot of other casting sites is that people can come find you just because you're there and you have demos. And a lot of folks that work at random XYZ tech company, they don't know that agents exist. They're just gonna type in like voiceover online. They're gonna search through the listings. They might not even have any idea that an audition is a thing. 'Cause if you think about hiring a copywriter, an artist, auditioning is not really a thing. You go and you listen to their body of work that they've already done, and you hire them based on that and what you see and what you hear. So for a lot of people, they might come across Voice123, just immediately start searching, listening to people's stuff, and then just message them; off and away.
Anne: Yeah. That's a really good point. I'll tell you, and it's something that I'm always talking to my students about when we're talking about corporate and e-learning and especially if it's for corporate training, I'm like the course of someone's day job, if they work in corporate, which I think we all understand, is they don't know about auditioning or talent agents or who they can contact. They know Google and they know searchability. And if they find someone, and that's about it, what they know about casting for voiceovers. So it helps to have that good SEO. And I think also to present as many opportunities for work for a voice talent as you can, and online casting sites are one part of that puzzle, in addition to talent agents and online searches and just having a great website, so.
Katherine: Another really great thing about online casting sites is that the barrier to entry is so much lower than getting your very first agent. You can sign on, you know, with enough coaching and make sure that you really, really are ready. It's not a place to just like play around and try things out. But it's the first place you can really book meaningful clients and start that body of work. So then you can go to an agent and say, hey, these are the clients I already have that I can bring to you.
Natasha: I also like to share that I think there's less competition on online casting, depending on the, on the site, but yes, it's full of competition, and they're very good, but the auditions can be anywhere from we're looking 5, 10, 50 auditions. Agent auditions, they're taking hundreds of auditions in maybe from different agencies, and they're all allegedly like really, really good talent. You don't have a lot of amateur talent in the mix, which you do in online casting. So your odds of booking are better than they are with an agent, just saying. But I mean, not that it's not challenging, but your odds are pretty good on online casting to build up some income.
Anne: Good point. Let's talk a little bit about, and I don't know if you wanna go specifically into Voice123, but let's talk about branding on an online casting platform and how important is that? Because once you are on the platform, you want people to be able to find you and be able to maybe hire you based upon, you know, what separates you from the rest of the talent.
Natasha: You really need to use the most specific words about you, whether it's for SEO or for branding, because on online casting, you're competing against other voice actors. So to say professional voice talent on your profile on Voice123 is telling them nothing, and people do it. Don't do it, people. Find words to describe you that can paint a picture for people in their heads. You know, you have your opportunity to have a photo, which agents and casting directors don't necessarily like, but we're not focusing We're not targeting those hirers. We're targeting business people generally who will benefit from seeing your photo for some sort of like context and some words that will help with some voice age qualities.
Katherine and I do a whole session -- we call them keying labs, but they're essentially branding as well in that we put our heads together with six other talent and listen to talent samples. So we can help provide you words to go to the table, whether it's for your website or for Voice123 to brand yourself so that you aren't just putting down professional voice talent on your profiles. It's super important to stand out and look different than everyone else.
Anne: Now that is a really wonderful service because it's very, very difficult, I mean, to brand yourself by yourself. And so having the additional ears to be able to hear someone's voice and help them to categorize that for them, I think is super important. Now is that part of -- I know you said you do a, a workshop. Is that part of the package that you offer on V123 Pros? Or is it a separate?
Natasha: So keying labs are a separate thing that they're kind of rare. We have a waiting list on our website and when we have a group of people that we feel, uh, will jive together, meaning not just beginners or not, you know, there's a nice group of people, we put out a couple of keywording labs, a good mix of people, and we'll put them out. So they're happening, I'd say every four months or so. When you do them, you realize, oh, this is really helpful. But trying to sell it to people is -- we are not the most salesy people. So we're not out there shouting from the rooftops, but when they understand it, they realize, oh, this was really important that I do this. It was so helpful.
Anne: Yeah, absolutely.
Katherine: We gave like a teeny tiny like teaser of it at eVOcation, and then everybody was like, oh my God, this was incredible. This is so helpful. And we're like, yes, it is. It's so helpful to hear objective opinions about what you sound like from your peers.
Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. And so in terms of then your branding or the profile, which I would assume is one of the key areas that you need to have, you know, up to snuff in order to be visible on the platform, tell us a little bit about the profile, some tips for having a great profile. I assume you'd have to have good demos too.
Katherine: Especially for Voice123, you need to look bookable right away. So that could be just keep a tab of your profile open and hit refresh every day. 'Cause your stats of the last time you were on the site are there and also the stat of how quickly you respond to messages. So as soon as you get a message on that platform, you gotta say, hello, hey, what's up? Don't say that. And then you also need to make sure you have really great demos that stand out, and they don't need to all be professionally produced. They can be dry samples, 'cause again, a lot of people are expecting to hear what they are going to hear when you send 'em the finished product. And then on your actual profile, be brief, be to the point. Natasha, you like saying these things.
Natasha: I do. The really great news is that it's a level playing field. So even if you're a new talent or you're experienced talent, nobody can tell. This is the magic of the internet and branding. And as long as you're looking bookable, as Katherine says, you don't have to have been doing it for very long to play along with the other people who've been doing in a long time. The bad news is sometimes people choose photos or don't choose a photo at all. Choose photos that look, well, crazy or because the pictures are so small, they look like crazy people. You have to be discerning about what you put on there because you wanna differentiate yourself from an amateur.
And so that has to do with the descriptive words you use, the professionalism you use. So just because you did business in other industries doesn't mean you shouldn't put it on your profile. Hirers wanna know that you are a business person. They wanna know that you're not gonna drop the ball. So if you add what you did in your past lives, that's beneficial to them to know that they can trust you to not drop the ball with their very important job.
So remembering, much like LinkedIn, as Katherine said, you wanna appear as professional as you can. Don't stress, be creative, and make it super pro, and lead with that foot of I've done this and this, and that benefits me in this area of corporate narration. And you talk so much about corporate narration. And so as you know, it's a benefit if you've been in the medical field to do medical narration, or if you've been in the tech or FinTech field to talk about using that terminology. So go ahead and use all your background. But when you get down to the skills and services area of whatever profile it is, don't tell them like every community theater play you are in. Like, keep it brief, keep it pro you can put your coaches. They might not know your coaches, but just fill it out enough that makes it look like, you know what you're talking about. That's my 50 cents. .
Anne: I need to know what denotes a crazy, a crazy profile picture. What, what just out of curiosity.
Katherine: Sometimes black and white doesn't carry over well when it's a really small photo, unless you really wanna be like the old school announcer style person, or if it's like a super artsy photo, you know that sometimes can't translate very well.
Natasha: It does sometimes look amazing and sometimes -- sorry, but mustache and glasses can sometimes look crazy. And then if that's your persona, make sure you get a super pro photo. Like it's okay to get snapshots if it translates well. But sometimes if you got a hat and glasses and a mustache, you just look like you're wearing a disguise or something. You know it --
Natasha: So be sure -- lighting is so important, you know? So you can pull it off with a snapshot, but I would err on the side of professional photo.
Anne: Yeah, yeah. Especially 'cause they're small.
Natasha: Yeah. They're teeny tiny and then they don't translate well.
Katherine: We did an entire work about profile photos and like what constitutes crazy. So if you wanna know more and get some actual visual examples.
Anne: Okay. I'm very interested in that. .
Natasha: Some people use illustrations though. And those work great, avatars or whatever. Yeah. And, and if you're in animation, that works really, really well.
Anne: Now is it better to have more samples slash demos of your work or less or more targeted? I've heard that's an advantage if they're more targeted for genres.
Natasha: Quality over quantity.
Anne: Yep. Okay.
Natasha: As long as they're not repetitive. If they sound the same, there's no sense in having 99 samples. Yes. You can have a lot and then you have lots more opportunity to put keywords in there. But if they're all similar, then you're not doing yourself any favors. It's all very strategic.
Anne: So now let's talk about everybody's, I think, Achilles heel is the auditioning, right, and the feedback. So what specific things audition-wise can help make you stand out and maybe feedback is our topic after this? Because I think people get really crazy about the feedback or the lack thereof.
Natasha: Ah, do they? Okay. I love giving feedback about auditions. So one of the services that we provide on our website is audition audits. I've taken a break for the rest of 2022 because it became too much. But I love receiving say six auditions from people and telling them why it's bookable or not bookable. 'Cause you can hear pretty quickly, I'm sure, Anne, as a coach, you can hear very quickly, and it's really no different than what you'd submit to an agent. Technically, is it perfect? Is it how you would submit the job? Because if it's technically, if there's noise or if there's more than a half or a second on the front, you're off the list, and these aren't even -- we're not talking casting directors or top casting people.
We're talking about everyday people, maybe they've never cast before, but they can tell when they hear studio noise or room noise or there's too much space that you probably don't know what you're doing. So you wanna make sure technically you're completely proficient. And then the craft, as it is in agent auditions, those first three seconds are vital because you're competing against so many people, and they're click, click, click clicking. You need to sound first of all great, but then different you can sound great and 100 people can sound great, but then how are you gonna stand out? And that's to put a little bit of different phrasing, melody, emphasis-is-is on the words in a way that someone else didn't.
Anne: What about improv? Thoughts on that? Improvving, slating?
Natasha: I think slating is safe. Like people don't ask for it, but I think depending on the listener, it can sound like, oh they're pro; they have a slate. So it's creative choice. I just cut to the chase. I just give it to them. But improvving again, know your audience. So we're not talking about casting directors. These are regular generally marketing or business people. If it lends to a great performance, by all means, why not? And you have the opportunity to give as many takes as you want. I wouldn't give more than two, maybe three if it's super short, but you have the opportunity to give two different takes. You can do whatever you want. And so I think it's super beneficial in this case to improv if it's really lending to the performance.
Katherine: Yeah. And having two different takes that are dramatically different can be really helpful on online casting. 'Cause if you have something that's very bright at the foreground and then in the second take, you have something that's very calm, it's often common that I'll say, you know, the first take that I'm giving you is much brighter. The second is much calmer, happy to split between the two or give you something different if needed. And then they can kind of trust that you can go somewhere different than maybe what you gave them out of the gate. And I think that an average, on online casting people maybe are a little less savvy and won't assume that you can do that until you actually give them that range.
Natasha: And I wanna underline that Katherine would say that in text, in the submission, in her letter. She wouldn't say that by slate or anything. It would just be clean takes. And she would clearly say it in the text below in the attachment.
Anne: Right. You don't need to go on and on and on in your slate about, "hi, I'm Anne. And I'm from --
Natasha: Don't go on and on.
Anne: -- "Southern California."
Natasha: Yeah, at most.
Anne: Yes. Vital seconds. Yeah. I tend to agree with that.
Katherine: At most I'll ever say, "Katherine Tole, two takes," and then you say like a little bit more about those takes in the description.
Anne: So, alright, feedback. In terms of feedback on the site, I don't know if you have any specifics, because I believe for Voice123, this is part of how you possibly get ranked in terms of search, right, is the feedback that you've been given? Is it stars? How does that work?
Katherine: Yeah. So there used to be a rating system that you would get, and it was, I think one to five stars. I don't remember if it was actually stars, and unfortunately clients didn't know was one star good, was five stars good? And so there wasn't a lot of education behind that rating system. And so people kind of just got like garbage in, garbage out for those rating systems. And so in 2018 they revitalized that whole system. And now it's just, did you give it a thumbs up 'cause you liked it or did you not? And those thumbs up on an average over the course of the last 12 months of what you've auditioned for give you a percentile ranking on the site. Now as of maybe a month ago, they're also adding in what you've booked on the site to be the same quantity as one thumbs up. 'Cause obviously if you booked it, you probably were liked. So there's a little tweak to that algorithm now.
Anne: Ah got it. So you don't ever have to book necessarily to be ranked higher. You just have to have the likes. So that's really good to not discourage, let's say, people who are new to the voiceover industry and feel like, oh I'm already penalized because I --
Katherine: Yeah, it's all the same.
Anne: -- haven't booked a job yet.
Natasha: They start you at the top 50 percentile. As long as you're getting one thumb up for say every five audition, you'll move up to the top 10th percentile. There's no thumbs down. But if you don't get a thumbs up, that works into your percentile. It's a tricky situation, although we have a free download on our website. So our website is V123pros.com, and we have free resources. And one of them explains this whole percentile thing because it's so important and everyone asks.
Anne: Yeah, that seems to be the key. And so talk a little bit about the side hustle, the side gig of V123pros.com and what it is that you offer. 'Cause I'm sure that this kind of little teaser is starting to get people like, whoa, how can I find out more? Because I really wanna beef up my profile or find out how I can be more successful on this platform. I know that's like the number one thing when people are on online casting platforms, they're like, I'm not booking, I'm not getting work. So tell us about what your program offers.
Katherine: Yeah. So a lot of answers, a lot of help. That's really what we're trying to do is we're trying to help and share the wealth of knowledge that we've gained from using the site so successfully. And so we really recommend that everybody start -- you know, you can start with the free resources if you'd like to see kind of what we offer initially. And then we really recommend that people start with our online course. There's about 15 modules. So we break things down into really bite-sized chunks. You can play pause, rewind, rewatch as much as you want, which was a huge benefit versus doing it live all the time.
And so the online course lets you take in all of the information, we keep it updated. And then we have once a month, we have these workinars that we do the fourth Friday of every month. And that's a little live piece where you can come and ask your questions. We have like a subject of the month that we talk about, and that way we can do one on one help. And those are only $25 a month because we really want them to be a thing that you can come to easily. And then we also have the keywording labs. You'll see that on the website. And there's a wait list that you can sign up for for when we schedule those, because we wanna make sure that the times we schedule work for the people that are interested in them.
Anne: I was gonna say, if you buy the course, you mentioned that the updates are free for the lifetime of the course.
Katherine: I mentioned earlier from my personal experience that I took a course that then three months later, these, all these things changed, and then I wasn't able to get that new info. So.
Natasha: Katherine and I have really priced it not to sell it, but the truth is we've priced it at a really reasonable price where we know talent aren't lighting their money on fire. It's huge value, but then also to give updates. So we've already recorded updates to all the videos since we first recorded. So I guess a year after or something, and we're going to do another update soon because Voice123 does make a lot of tweaks through the year. Another thing we do, 'cause people will come to us with like "help me," and they , they just, just want, just --
Katherine: "I don't know what I'm doing! Ahh!"
Natasha: So again, we really recommend starting with the course because without that knowledge of how to participate on the site. We can make it all shiny and nice for you, but you still need to know how to roll on the site. But we do what we call PPPs, Profile and playlist packages where people just hand it all over to us, and we optimize their profile, and we help them keyword the heck out of their, out of their playlists, out of their sample.
Anne: I would do that.
Anne: I'm just saying, I'm just gonna say my issue is that I don't have enough time to audition specifically these days, but yeah, that is an amazing service, and I would be so willing. Just please do it. and I would buy the course for the lifetime updates. Yeah.
Natasha: Yeah, right.
Anne: The keywords are, the keywords are essential too because?
Katherine: They help other people find you. So, Anne, you don't have to be on the platform auditioning actively. I mean you do need to do it every once in a while to keep your percentile up. But, but that's so many people can use search with those keywords on your samples and just message you and be like, hey, we found your sample and we wanna book you for this thing. Who doesn't wanna say yes to that?
Anne: Well, that's true now. See, you're getting me thinking. That's usually when I, I had tried different levels as well. That's usually how I got booked was the direct just because I didn't have a ton of time to audition, which is great for someone like me. But I think for any of you BOSSes out there, having a profile on an online casting site -- my vote is for Voice123. It's one of my favorite platforms because you've always been able to work with the client directly, and there has never been interference in the many years that it's been going, even though it changes. And one thing that's really cool about VO BOSS is we have an affiliate program with Voice123.
So for the BOSSes out there that are interested and don't have a membership, we have 15% off. I'm gonna put a link in the show notes section on the website for you guys to follow. So you can get 15% off select memberships. And so that will be great. And of course we'll put a link to your course, the V123 Pros, and I'm recommending everything that they offer. because I've worked with these ladies a couple of times already, and they're amazing, BOSSes, if you're looking for help.
And I think especially those starting out, it's absolutely one of the places you have to be. I mean, you need to present yourself with multiple opportunities for work, and online casting sites is for sure a part of that. So, fantastic. So tell us once again where they can find you and each of you as well, so that they can get the help they need.
Natasha: All our info is on V123pros.com. And in our about section, you can connect with each of us. It has all our info. It just makes it easier for you to go to V123pros.com and leaf through it like you would in the old days . Go through all the tabs because we try not to bombard people with stuff. We try to make it clean and clear. And this is what you need. Try this out. If you can't go through the website because you are rushed, then Voice123 might not be for you because you have to take some time to comb through things sometimes. And if you don't play the game on Voice123 properly, you could end up tanking. We say it's one thing to pay for and use Voice123 and it's another thing to use it optimally. And it's a world of difference. So check out the website and has all our contact information and our websites on there and email and all the things. So thank you, Anne.
Anne: Yes, absolutely. And you guys also, you have a video podcast, is that correct?
Natasha: So I have a separate collaboration for a webcast called Speechless VO on YouTube. So I learned really thanks to Katherine the power of collaboration. So Katherine came into my life and I was like, this is amazing because you have your what you can give, and then someone else comes and you just power through. So another best friend of mine and I are doing Speechless VO, real life in VO and have that webcast going. Kim Wilson. Yeah.
Anne: Fantastic. Fantastic. And I can attest to that because you know, this is one of the reasons why for VO BOSS, I come up with newly themed series so that I can work with a co-host. I mean, it's just putting the two together to really work with each other, to provide an educational resource. And that is what you two ladies do so well, and really, thank you so much for your contributions and everything that you do for the community. BOSSes out there, really check these ladies out. I'm gonna put their links on the show notes. I want to talk to you guys a little bit about if you want to have a chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference in the world and give back to the communities that give to you, you can visit 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more information and to commit to that. And of course, a big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. We love to network like BOSSes. You can find out more at ipdtl.com. BOSSes, have an amazing week. Ladies, it's been amazing and we'll see you next week.
Natasha: Thank you so much.
Katherine: Thank you, Anne.
Anne: Thank you. All right, bye, guys.
>> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.