Sacred Earth Medicine with Charlotte James and Dre Wright from The Ancestor Project


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This episode is a gift. Charlotte James and Dre Wright, the co-founders of The Ancestor Project share their knowledge of using sacred earth medicine as a tool for liberation. Dre and Charlotte make it clear that there is no such thing as a magic pill/cure all for the ills that systemic oppression cause us, but sacred earth medicine can be a life changing catalyst for growth. In the end the magic is within you. But if you’ve been feeling called to discover what role plant medicine can play in your healing journey you are going to love this episode.

This episode we discuss

* Using plant medicine or sacred earth medicine in your healing journey

* Radical self-love as a major step in spiritual work

* Safety and the importance of BIPOC integration circles

* Catalysts for growth vs magic pills

* Recognizing your lineage and ancestral healing tools

Dalia: Hello and welcome to another episode of Body Liberation for All. I'm your host and decolonized wellness and body image coach Dalia Kinsey. I help queer folks of color heal their struggles with shame and self-acceptance through nutrition and self-care so they can live the most fierce, liberated, and joyful version of their lives.

I have been interested in instant enlightenment for a really long time and through research and personal growth, I realized that there's no such thing, but that doesn't stop me from being distracted by or enthralled with any promise of short cutting personal and spiritual growth. So when I started hearing more about plant medicine and hearing all these over the top dramatic stories about how it's changed people's lives in one session, of course, I was interested.

So this has been something I have had some personal lived experience with. And what has become really clear is that just like any area of wellness, where people have monetized something that does have true healing potential, you have to be an educated consumer. It's extremely helpful from the standpoint of a healer to encourage people, to keep their expectations in check, because just the way the human brain works and how susceptible so many of us are to suggestion there is massive potential for disappointment when we create specific expectations fir experiences that yield wildly varying results.

I'm so happy today to share with you a conversation with two healers that really are invested in the liberation and the growth of the people that they work, who aren't just out here selling big promises. They're about the healing work and transformation. Dre and Charlotte from The Ancestor Project, give us some really helpful tips in this episode that I think will help anyone who's considering using plant medicine or sacred earth medicine to continue moving forward in their healing journey.

I'm sure you're going to enjoy this conversation. Let's jump right.

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Dre: I am a spiritual being, having a human experience. My fundamental nature is pure creative power and unconditional love. I'm Dre a co-founders of the Sabina Project and we actually changed our name to The Ancestor Project, but we're honored to be here and yeah. Thank you.

Charlotte: And I am Charlotte James, the co-founder of the now Ancestor Project.

Dalia: Thank you so much for being here. That new name really resonates. I had to do a little research to try and understand where Sabina was coming from, but can you tell us about that? And what made you feel like a name change was more in alignment?

Dre: You know, as healers, a big part of, being in our opinion to be an effective healer is to do a lot of self-reflection.

So when we came up with the name, The Sabina Project, who was because we were Charlotte was at a talk and there was, uh, there was a mention of Maria Sabina. But it was mentioned in a very, like, they, they spend a lot of time deifying and all these white men and, you know, acting as if they discovered mushrooms and the, and these traditions and oh yeah we want to give a shout out to Maria Sabina.

Right. And there's a, there's an important backstory behind that actually, you know, see there was a tremendous amount of pain and suffering. That she experienced, uh, after sharing this medicine with Watson who lied to her to get her to share a ceremony. You know, one of her children was murdered. The house was burned down. The Mexican government treated her like a drug dealer. It wasn't a good experience. Right. Watson came down there. He had an experience. He was supposed to keep it secret, but then he wrote this article in Life magazine and then all these westerners besieged her home village.

And that was not good for the family. So knowing that, Charlotte stood up and started breaking this down. Like, oh, we couldn't, you need to do a little bit better job of venerating this ancestor. And so after the talk we were thinking about a name, she was like we wanted to name it Sabina Project.

This was a great example of cultural appropriation, right. And how the west takes advantage. However, we didn't ask Sabina for permission to use her name. Right. We thought it was a good idea. And even though our intentions were good, we were in fact doing the same thing we're calling out in other individuals.

So in self-reflection the changing.

Charlotte: Yep. Yeah. It is some soul searching, some ego checking. Um, and yeah, we want to continue to be an example, um, in the psychedelic space and to not just talk the talk, but walk the walk. And also, you know, as we expand in this work, the truth is that the traditions that we practice, that we learned from that we venerate and that we come from are not just one tradition.

And so we wanted to have a name that was more inclusive of all of the ancestors that brought us to where we are now. So yeah, we're The Ancestor Project.

Dalia: That's fascinating that it came up for you in that context. What initially led you to be interested in using plant medicine as a healing tool?

Was it first a tool you used personally? Or something you just wanted to explore because of some other reasons.

Charlotte: So we definitely work off of the mindset that the medicine calls you in, and it happens in a number of different ways for different people. We both have really seemingly like on the surface, very different introductions into our path in this.

I first started using cannabis when I was 14. I know that it was incredibly supportive in helping sort of chill out some unrecognized, high functioning anxiety tendencies. And really supported me and like moving through high school and college I think at that point, my mind was already very open.

Uh, I had had a lot of mind expanding experiences. And so when other psychedelics or plant medicines like were offered up, I was open to the idea of exploring that. And yeah, whether I was doing it incredibly intentionally back then, it certainly was like key to getting me into where I am as a person today.

Dalia: I know for me personally, it's always felt like everyone around me who is part of the dominant culture uses drugs recreationally at some point in their lives without fear of it completely changing the course of their life. But I always felt like I better not touch any of that with a 10 foot pole because the minute I even think about something that's restricted, I imagine the man's just going to pop through a wall or something like that.

That was always my concern. And it feels even more outrageous that a lot of these medicines were in the hands of the people that now are not allowed to use it. On a level, the narrative is still that, oh, this is restricted, but no, it's only really restricted for some people. So how do you encourage folks of color who want to access the healing potential of plant medicine to do so?

Because they know there are some things that are legal here in the states that maybe aren't as highly publicized, that could also be useful. And then there are places you could travel to where you can explore other types of medicine without as much worry.

And then there's different worry about like, can you trust the provider? How do you set the setting? What advice would you give someone who is just starting to think about possibly exploring plant medicine?

Dre: Good question. Great question. And then, you know, the answer is layered.

You know, back to what Charlotte said before the medicine calls you when you're ready to answer, right? These medicines are millions of years old and wise. So that’s the first thing, the second thing is understand that all of the information that you have learned has been information that's been shared to you by the person who did and is currently imprisoning your black body, right. So why would you trust them? Right. And you should start asking the question. Why, why is it that, you know, an African-American male has, is 900% more likely to be arrested for simple possession of cannabis in the state like Maryland used to before it was legal.

When in the United States, we use cannabis at a lower rate. So the reality is too, that there is a significant difference in the types of punishments that we receive or how these laws are enforced. Right. On the other hand we will not liberate ourselves from this oppression logically, right? We have to use both sides of our brain.

Our superpower is from getting connected with these medicines. It is the path to our collective liberation. So if you want to spend another generation, explaining to your children, why they have to act differently and be treated differently because of their color, then you go ahead and do that. If you want to be on the liberation train, you're going to have to use some tools outside of the ones that we've all tried that have not worked.

We've had a black president we've, you know, how much evidence do we need to have before you, before we realized that what we're doing, protesting and all that in fact, that's not really the answer, right. But there is an answer, right? And it's, it is our ancestors. This medicine comes from my ancestors.

And they will get us to a place of liberation. Right? If that's important to you and some folks, you know, this lifetime, some aren’t ready to be liberated for those that are, this is the way this is the path.

And then how do you approach these medicines? Well, I would say surrender to the idea that these medicines can support you and then you will, well, what tends to happen is the universe will open up for you and provide you with access. The pathways will come to you. When the student is ready, the teacher will appear, the first thing that you have to get past is the fear of these constructs.

You know, this is the same government, if you think about most of the medications that you've been given that, that call quote unquote alright. Again the thought process and the belief systems that you have in you have been inculcated with nonsense.

For example, they spread ideas like black people are lazy. But they used our black bodies for free to work. So clearly, you know, its the transfer of their sins onto us. So we've got to stop believing or at the very least question, their ideas, philosophies, and belief systems and start seeing them for how corrupt they really are.

I would say that would be the first step, right. It's just like really, you begin to deconstruct your colonization. They don't have to actually control your body anymore. They've got control of your mind.

Dalia: So is that why for you this is such a key part of the liberation process is because at this point, a lot of the feelings of imprisonment are just ingrained mentally and they're not physically there anymore.

A lot of the barriers are gone, but it's hard to see them.

Dre: Colonization is self-replicating. Patriarchy is self-replicating. These abuse constructs are self-replicating. So all you need to do is brainwash one generation. We still, as people of color, talk about light skin and dark skin in our communication.

In so many dysfunctional ways, you know, we still, we are more religious about Abrahamic traditions, we hold on to those traditions tighter than they do. Right. We've got to take deep breaths. Right. And just realize that you can make different choices in our lives.

And then once you start tapping into that stream of consciousness, all the opportunities that connect with these medicines, will be available.

Dalia: You radiate calmness. This has been a really trying time for everyone. And you're also working as healers experiencing a lot of stress because of what people bring to you. And also because people want to block you from doing your work. There’s so many levels in what you just shared. I can hear the balance. In the last webinar that I attended, I saw that there were clearly colonizer descendants present as well, but you're able to face the fact of the horrors of the damage that colonization has done and allow descendants into the space. How do you find that place of, I guess, equanimity where you can hold room for both.

Charlotte: If I could start on that one.

I think part of what we recognize and also teach, especially when we focus on anti-racism work is that we have actually all been colonized away from our animistic and indigenous shamonic traditions. And this is oftentimes the root cause of cultural appropriation to bring it full circle is that folks are so disconnected from their own traditions that they begin to take from others and do so in a disrespectful and non reverential way.

So we hold, you know, our like first true. community offering that we still carry through is our BIPOC integration circle that we do twice a month. And that's a time for us to come together with our BIPOC family and just talk about our experiences with the medicine and our experiences in the world.

Reintegrating, the insights that the medicine gives us into a world in which we do exist within structures that are built to oppress us. Outside of that, our space is open to those who are willing to sit in their discomfort and face the role that their ancestors played in getting us into the place that we are now, and also the role that they play in perpetuating it.

I know you, I think you came to the microdosing to dismantle oppression, workshop or masterclass, and you know, the whole, our conversation around working with these medicines for personal transformation is working to dismantle the systems of oppression that we've internalized so that we can stop projecting them and replicating the systems of abuse externally.

And so, you know, we keep our community open to that conversation. I also, you know, I'm a biracial person and so I have to contest with that in my own identity as well. You know, I think it's important to be authentic to our lineages and our experiences in this space as Black folks with many different backgrounds and nationalities and heritages.

Dalia: Yeah, I was recently reading, you know, the historian and the person who specializes in genealogy, that's always on PBS with famous folls, I think it's Henry Louis. Right? So it's so interesting in his book, he points out that so many Black families have these stories of Native American or first nations ancestry.

And it's almost never the case. It's almost always European ancestry. And so this is something that a lot of Black Americans struggle with reconciling that no one is a hundred percent anything. That's just literally not a thing. And because of how binary race is seen in the states in particular, that can be really difficult for people to deal with because how we're socialized is typically going to be one or the other, like people don't let you just fully be yourself.

So how has the medicine affected your ability to maintain your peace every day dealing with all the layers and all the work that you have to do to fully accept yourself in a world that makes that a little tricky.

Dre: Yeah. Some, some good questions today. I got this Black dude, you know, the word that keeps coming up for me, the question, the last question is low, right?

So we start from there. We are homo sapiens so 4% or so of our DNA might be Neanderthal. We are homo sapiens the species. Okay. We are also carbon based creatures and everything in the universe is mostly carbon. Every one of us is relatives.

At the end of the day, this, the conversation we'll have is specifically now is about a 3d reality. The illusion that we walk around, the walking dead, I like to call it this, this illusion, we do live in a very abusive experience.

Right. But we have the ability to transcend this reality, right. And then bring back that power back to this 3d world. Instead of us being the genius that the genius moves through us. Right. And for us, and that the universe inspires on, our behalf. Right. I think one of the reasons why the Abrahamic traditions and colonization have been so successful is that they got us disconnected from the other part of our brain.

You've been using that logical, linear pathway that only distorted information and got us disconnected with the other side of ourselves. Right. And so what we are encouraging every human to do is understand the name that you chose before your parents were born. Right. And this reality, right? Yeah. So I think really at the end of the day, deep healing starts with having deep radical self-love for yourself, not defining yourself by anyone else's ideas, except for yourself, your true essence, right? And then when you are radically deeply in love with yourself, they have so much compassion and love. Most of the trauma that we are experiencing in humans most is from other humans is not from disease.

And most of that trauma is simply the word. That another human uses towards us. Right? It's that? It's that dad, your dad not telling you, he loved you when you were six and now you're 80 and you're still traumatized by that experience. That's when most of us, so we'll want to get deeply in love with ourselves, right?

And then once you’re loving yourself and really understanding your true essence, the medicines allow you to get out of your own way and allow you to heal the experience.

Dalia: That sounds like deep spiritual work. Does it matter what traditions accompany this type of healing?

Well, first, can you kind of tell us what animism is because that isn't something we hear about a lot in the west.

Dre: So the easiest way to think about it is this is begin to seeing yourself as part of this great collective that we call the earth. I, and you you're one of many different organisms and you're related to all these things, right.

And to develop a deep reverence and respect for those things for yourself. That's what all hunter gatherer traditions share, connection. Some of it was aligned with the food they were eating as well and how they survived. There was a deep connection and reverence for yourself. And then the other part of that was.

So if you have both of those two things aligned, that's the practice. Find our ancestors practice, these ways, the flow.

Charlotte: Yeah.

That's this idea that every living and even what we would consider a non-living beings on this planet is alive and that we are an intrinsic part of that. I don't know if you've ever seen the graphic and it's like one side will say ego and there's like a little person on top and then various different kinds of animals underneath the person.

And then on the right side, it will say eco. And it's like the person as part of, in a circle with all of these. Beings. And so it's the idea. Shamanism is really the idea of going from a dominion model, which is your right, like where there's a dominant culture, there's norms that are accepted as a dominant way of life to living in.

I forget the term that, that like shamanism uses. To living in, in equanimity with everything around us. And you can find that tradition on the continent of Africa, in the Amazon, and also in Nordic tradition and Viking tradition in Russian tradition. So that's not something that is specific to Black and brown cultures, something that was specific to indigenous culture and there's indigenous culture around the world.

But I thought that the question you asked around, like, does it matter what traditions you focus on in this like realm of healing or sort of sacred earth medicine healing space.

I think a lot of what we talk about is educating folks on the lineages that these medicines and traditions come from, because you'll see now that there's a lot of research being done around how these medicines work and what they heal and can cure.

And really our ancestors already did the research on how to safely and effectively use these medicines to support our collective liberation. And so for us, it's important to learn from these traditions to understand the context of the medicine. But again, circling back to this, you know, idea that we all now are very, like, sort of pluralistic in our identity.

It also means that you can work with more than one tradition and there is not any sort of dogma around that aspect of it. And there's not even that much dogma within the traditions frequently.

Dalia: Thats refreshing. And that's very different from like a colonizer perspective. Everything's always very one or the other confined. So I have noticed that, especially here in the states, it just seems like members of the dominant culture are running this healing space. What have you noticed is the difference in how folks of color, or maybe not even folks of color in general, just how you specifically, how is this tool different when it comes to.

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Dre: Ancestral practices.

You know, we, both of us had been in the dominant white spaces before, and there's a lot of forms of sensationalism, the medicine itself and the proper what's the dose. And I saw this, but when you get around predominantly BIPOC there tends to be a conversation around practice, around respect, around reverence and connection with your ancestors, which is really beautiful and fresh.

And I don't think we've done last year. We did. I dunno, we did every first and third, Sunday, we do integration circle and I don't think we've ever had a conversation about an experience asking what was the dose and all that type of stuff, you know, sensationalized experience.

Dalia: Well, my partner checked me yesterday.

I think it was a few days ago because they are part of the dominant culture. And they're like, every time I walked by the off you are saying something about colonizers. He didn’t feel like it’s a blanket term people can connect to now. And I said, well, maybe I need to start looking for ways to address the reality of the situation is that we are dealing with fallout from colonization.

But then also, like you said, it happened to everyone really but I think it's clear who is suffering on the more violent end. But everyone is suffering. So I'm experimenting with that, that term.

Dre: Yeah. It's also interesting because we are using, you know, that try to have these conversations, but ultimately they used in our colonization.

Right. Which is very unlimited. Right. And it ultimately pushes us to put ourselves in these silos where we separate, you know, like whiteness is not actually real and we've been perpetuating this nonsense, black and white forever. And it just separates us and keeps us from not focusing, you know, that the reality is that even your light brothers and sisters out there, most of those folks, all those folks have been victims of colonization.

If you think about, you know, what the pilgrims suffered, right before they came over here, they were setting those folks on fire and putting them on crosses for their belief systems. Right. So we've all suffered the tremendous amount of abuse. And then what happens is, you know, the usage is heavy and it's tremendous.

And so you, you begin to see. When we notice in our own communities where folks have self-hatred and they treat their own folks worse, than the perceived dominant culture does.

Dalia: There's so many levels.

When did you become clear on your personal dedication to being liberated? And wanting to liberate others

Dre: When I get there, I’ll let you know. Now every day, every day I realize in how many ways I am complicit in the abuse. Just a real simple example, for years, I would teach young men how to survive a police encounter, you know, roll, crack your window, put your hands on the steering wheel, ask for permission, you know, how to survive a police encounter. And during that time, it must've been like 10 years. I was teaching straight, very proud of all this training and never occurred to me that in addition to doing that, I should be dismantling the system that causes me to have to teach Black boys to act differently in a police encounter.

Right. So we all completely, I joined the military, right. So, you know, I've been brainwashed just like the rest of us, you know?

Charlotte: I feel like that's part of, even that is part of this narrative, right. That we like compare our trauma to each other, to say who was more or less traumatized. And that means I should be in this place or that place on my journey.

No, we all respond to trauma differently. And we all have been tried in the same way. We've all been colonized. We've all been traumatized at different degrees. I think it's just like we are we're humans, you know, like we, we may do medicine work or be at a different place in our medicine journey, but like we still come back to the 3D every time and have to deal with the human stuff.

Dalia: Yeah. I think that's really helpful because sometimes from the outside, you think that people who seem really far ahead of you in their spiritual journey have an easier time, or maybe we're less traumatized and less brainwashed than you

Charlotte: Actually this story circles back to one of your earlier questions that we didn't necessarily answer completely, which was this question of like how you begin a relationship with the medicine or how you find a practitioner or a facilitator or a scent, a retreat center that is going to be safe and support.

So we do our virtual BIPOC circles twice a month. We do masterclasses for surely around once a month. And sometimes you do series as well and then in person, we work with Kambo medicine and Rapé which are two legal, sacred earth medicines. And so they support us in being able to support our community and in a way that we can like talk about very publicly because they are legal medicines and Rapé is a medicine that you can begin building a relationship with on your own.

So we do virtual ceremonies where we send out medicine to people, and then we gather together on Zoom. Teach them how to administer that medicine and work with it.

Dalia: Tell me about the services that you have available right now and what people who live in your area can do with you and what people who are farther away can work with you on.

Charlotte: So I think it's a couple of things. It's funny what you said. There's that meme of like a kid trying to step like six steps up the stairs at once. And you know, the first couple of rungs are like meditation drinking a gallon of water a day, breath work, and then like rung six is psychedelics. And he's like trying to hop through.

Nothing's a magic pill and that is why we focus a lot on the preparation and integration because it's about taking the downloads that you receive in ceremony and then turning those into daily action, because what we are not encouraging is like constantly running back to the medicine without doing the work, to integrate the lessons.

So, yeah, there's question around being committed. Once you answer the call of the medicine, making a commitment like a holistic commitment to your wellbeing is what is going to move the journey along, but like coming to the medicine and then not changing any of your habits or behaviors or belief systems is like not, not going to work.

Dalia: Now with that type of plant medicine, the experiences that you're going to have, are they more subtle? And it's more like a supportive aid versus there's some other things, you know, everybody always wants to shortcut and myself included. There's some things that you fantasize that, oh, I'm going to take this thing and we're going to go on this retreat and I'm going to be enlightened by the end of the weekend.

Pretty sure that is not a thing ever. What do you find people have the most resistance around? Is it that it's still a journey? That it's still a lot of work or that we have all these really hyped up fictional perceptions of what plant medicine is going to be like?

Dre: I mean, we have that example today, right?

Just lots of people in the I'm not comfortable with the word dominant, what you see is people doing lots of psychedelics and lots of mushrooms and LSD and all those types of things. And then they create companies that churn out more abuse, right. They, you know, like in silicone valley is it's popular to do, to microdose so that you can work harder, longer, right.

And create more apps to create more addictions to us. So clearly doing these medicines without the right set and setting the right guidance is not effective. And the difference, the big difference is in the west, what you have is young people, traditionally experimenting or leading the way in this conversation. Our ancestors, the elders would bring the young ones to a right of passage, when it’s time for you to take on a new role and responsibility as part, a member of this community and they would do ceremony to move them to that next level. So there was a reason, there was a why, and there was a how to do these things, not folks, you know, dropping acid and drinking alcohol.

There is no magic. And just like the movie matrix, you know, why don't you take that pill? And you realize how you are complicit in everyone's abuse to include your own trauma that you're reliving daily, the stories that you tell yourself, the poison that you've ingested and that you're living in and the embodiment of that poison over and over again, the person told you you were unloved, unlovable, and unworthy.

And now every morning when you wake up, you tell yourself that story over and over again, you reinforce it. But is that the reality? So you could potentially have what they call a rebirth experience, your very first ceremony. Sure, but all that would mean is that you would realize how many more layers of work you need to do.

And then there's your ancestors you need to support. Lets say your parents, and their struggles and your ancestors and there's the rest of the community that needs to be healed. We encourage you to take the pill, but it is definitely not a magic pill. It's just the beginning.

It's just the beginning of many, many layers of learning how to love yourself, deeply compassionately and love other people deeply compassionately and passionately at the same time.

Dalia: .Where are the downloads coming from when you're in ceremony? Is it from you and your subconscious or to some part of you that's connected to something bigger like an ancestor or like a God?

Dre: Yeah. So I'm not going to just say, normally this is the first time I've done this. We're not going to answer that question because I think it's like a spoiler, right? Right. I think the west has this tendency of asking what’s right. But in a number of practices, you know, your job is to experience. You spend years watching and listening and observing, right.

This is the thing it's about the experience. The experience will, will clarify me so, right, but I don't want to give you too much information. And then you, and then it becomes a, well, I just heard it someplace. So maybe this is how do I know that this is even real for me. Right? Cause I heard it.

So, you know, what I can tell you is is that every person who has had a mystical experience with these medicines say it as one of the top five experiences in life. I will tell you for me as a person, the birth of my daughter was a greatest honor and privilege of my life to see her being born. the first five minutes of skin to skin.

It was a seminal experience, but sitting down with ayahuasca was the most important decision I've ever made. I would not be half the father I am, or the human I am if it was not from sitting with and surrendering to these medicines.

Charlotte: Yeah, thank you for, for saying that joy, because I think this goes back to, you know, the difference of what we see in our integration circles. And one of our key group agreements, not interpreting other people's journeys, but I think we also don't really hear it. Like in circle, people are not really saying, like giving a play by play of what they saw, what they heard, what they, whatever.

It's so much more about building this relationship of trust with yourself and the medicine, so that you're open to receiving whatever the medicine brings. And the medicine always brings what you need, not necessarily what you want. It can be challenging, but it does always bring you what you need.

Dre: Yeah, for sure.

Absolutely. Now I will give you a little hit. Right. So part of what this is about is asking a better question. And the question is what are the habits, beliefs, ideas, and people that no longer serve me, that I'm excited to let go. And what are the habits, beliefs, people, and ideas I'm excited to attract. Notice it's not you doing something like you creating something.

It’s simply just allowing the universe to conspire and attract those things into your life. So that question is how do you begin to develop a deep and powerful intention in your ceremony?

And then after you have the awareness, then you're now it's time to do the work.

Charlotte: Yes. Thank you for saying that. That is what I like distracted myself, but I think also in not answering that question too directly, it's like, we don't want to set expectations because the whole purpose is to come with strong intentions and have no expectation of the medicine

Dalia: When people are trying to do their integration do they ask themselves those questions again, or look for ways to just get clear on what revelations they think they had?

Dre: Great question. So if a person is privileged enough to do a ceremony, part of it is that you come to it with lots of reverence and a little bit of concern.

This is a big, it's a big deal. And thoughtfulness a tremendous amount of thoughtfulness in the setting and getting prepared for this thing. And then the goal is to live a life of ceremony, right? Live a life of thoughtfulness and prayer and reverence and connection to yourself, the daily.

It's the paying attention to your compulsion's and not reacting to compulsion's when reacting to the thing isn’t the highest best choice for yourself. And to these medicines, we're hoping, again, to understand the name that you chose before your parents were born.

The ego part of ourselves, is the self that can be the deceiver. Oh, I really need that sugar or I need alcohol. All those are things because I'm feeling I need to fill a hole. Right. And to take some external source to do it, but then when you're radically in love with yourself, that isn't it. There's no hole to fill, I'm in love.

Listen, the only thing I need, continuing to nourish myself and connect with others in creating an environment a nourishing one. That's my role. Okay.

Dalia: Is that the purpose of your life, do you feel?

Dre: All of our lives. And then, you know, the question, those questions you asked me, I would say you ask that question daily.

Like this was the daily inventory. A good morning practice when you get up is to do an inventory of all those aspects of yourself, really beautiful when you realized that you are now not all on autopilot, right? Just going, you know, just living the life that other people told you. And now you're in control of your movie, your story, your experience today, that's really super exciting and also scary too.

Because now you can't point things to anybody else.You have to really take new steps. It is nuanced though, because remember in the 3D reality that we live in the are still structures, there is a governmental system that, you know, is quite oppressive towards people of color.

And so that is not just here in America, but all over the world. So all this will have to pay attention to that reality as well.

Dalia: If there is just one thing you could say to the listeners and they would understand it instantly and carry it with them for the rest of their lives, what would you want for people to know?

Dre: Every one of us has super superpowers. It is true that you're probably never going to tap into those superpowers until you can connect with these plant medicines and surrender. They're older and wiser than you as a homo sapien will ever be, they have knowledge and traditions and teachings enlist them as your oldest relatives.

So sit with those relatives and they will open a doorway or pathway to healing and liberation like you never could dream it. We don't need to continue to perpetuate this idea that we are victims. We’re kings and queens that have to step into our power.

This is your path.

Charlotte: I would say, give yourself the gift of living your life.

Dalia: That's really powerful. That was so good. Thank you so much for coming on. How do you think is the best way for people to connect with you?

Charlotte: Right now you can find us on Instagram as @thesabinaproject and our site i

That will be changing soon, but you'll still be able to find us it'll reroute to where you need to go.

Dalia: Okay. Perfect. I’ll make sure to put those in the show notes as well. Thank you so much for being here.

Dre: Yeah. Thank you for having us. We're honored to be here.


Dalia: I love how grounded and realistic the insights and advice Dre and Charlotte offered are. I encourage you to check out The Ancestor Project on social media and also check out their integration service. That's specifically for BIPOC who are working with plant medicine, maybe on their own, and need a place to get the most out of their experiences and to fully integrate what they've learned in their daily life.

Remember the only cost for the show is that you share it with others anytime you hear something useful. These days, I'm confident, that is every episode. So feel free to take a screenshot and share that you've been listening to on Body Liberation for All. What was your takeaway from this episode?

Remember that Decolonizing Wellness is now available for pre-order and if you're listening to this after February, 2022. It's just available. It's out in the world. Please check out the show notes and go ahead and order your copy. All right. Thanks for joining me. I'll see you next time.

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